Top rope vs belay reddit.

Top rope vs belay reddit Yeah most of my belaying is lead belaying, where tunneling is considered more acceptable because you are able to maintain tension on the rope as you slide. Lead climbing is a true equalizer because you can't just pull past hard moves, you actually have to solve them. It's much the same as in the EpicTV video (Jul2 vs Pilot belay test) where he shows two methods to lower - one is to use your thumb to lift the device while having that hand still around the brake rope (same position as regular belaying with it), and the other is to pinch the device with thumb and two fingers. Top rope, lead, multi pitch, rope ascension, single-line raps; the device does a lot. ) I don't know if that's an "official" answer, but it made lots of sense to me. Petzl released the third-generation GRIGRI in 2019 and describes it as a good device for both top-rope and lead As for the rope, it is made of many smaller rope twist together, so it is considered redundant. Whereas on top rope/lead there are usually only a few moves where I have to focus on technique. It's basically a Grigri but the rope runs through it in a straight way when unlocked, so it feeds a bit better (didn't compare to a proper ascender). Same goes for your belay loop. The rope is already dynamic and to achieve speed, there’s a trade off for redundancy/over building anchors vs time. No need to switch devices for lowering. It is most definitely safer for top rope, and climbing is all about removing those little 'happens once in a thousand' accidents. You can also use weights but the above method is very safe. They also specified that top-rope belayers use ground anchors. As for belaying I would personally top rope on the last climb and top out. This is the whole reason for the belay loop. The carabiner is incorrectly loaded (triaxially) when you put it through the tie in points, so use the belay loop. I guess it boils down to the fact that I spend a larger percentage of my time focusing on technique when bouldering, compared to top rope/lead. Leading requires a lot more time and at the gym I don’t know if it helps with headspace at all since the clips are so close together anyway This is generally not an issue for top rope, especially if your gym wraps the rope around the pipe at the top of the route, as most do. 13 climbing. 2 though. Have fun with your 3 inch range of motion while you try to pull the rope and set the next rap. Gyms usually have the top-ropes doubled around the anchor. Currently I can only belay top rope, but I will take a lead course in a few weeks. Static vs Dynamic Rope for Glacier Travel? What is more preferred for glacier travel: static/hyperstatic ropes like a rad line or something like a dynamic alpine rope? I’d imagine you don’t want to fall on a static line into a crevasse as that would hurt pretty bad, but it seems like people love the rad lines? Last week while working a private, I had the pleasure of belaying a 300lb man with an atc (top rope). I often opt to top rope solo both when working out moves on a project but more commonly on easier routes for some climbing milage. Must demonstrate knowledge of z clip and back clip, knowledge of hard vs soft catch, pass the “lead climbing” portion and then separately the “lead belaying” portion. I belay with a Jul and I’m surprised by the fact that more people don’t belay with them, as they feel much more like an ATC (the device I learned to belay with) and are simpler overall. The rare individual might lead and top rope the same grade, but in my experience most people will get a clean top rope ascent at least two letter grades harder than they redpoint. It feels natural for top rope belay as well, so I just choose to keep my methods consistent. See full list on gearjunkie. It's good because the black cover is an easy visual check that krab is correct and also removes any risk of the screw gate working undone. Redundancy is especially important when it is out of your range (anchor, top rope setting, etc. However I would belay off the master point of the anchor over/at the edge to maintain visual with my climber. Tbh the picture guy isn’t even in direct to the bolts or anything it seems that seems more dangerous :p The best and simplist method for top rope self belay BY FAR is to tie in on one end of the top rope and thread the other end through a grigri. In the gym on top rope, have your belay partner give you a little slack and not take in too much especially on hard moves. You don't need to worry about a single point of failure with the belay loop. In top rope im doing consistent 5. It was due to our insurance policy, the insurance company dictated that we had to provide all safety equipment besides harnesses, and specified tube-style belay devices. What confuses me is that the image shown clearly says that using a locker on a figer-8 on a bite into the belay loop isn't safe, but that how you would want it in certain situations, since it would be no different that catching a climber while belaying. Plus as you progress has an easy switch to toggle to lead climbing so you can feed rope upwards. 10d and 5. It's a hassle compared to having a belayer, but it works :) The initial 25 ft of radically overhanging savergry, precise movement and powerful gymnastic climbing is in my opinion slightly harder than Esperanza V14 but on a rope clipping bolts and then yields a jug followed by solid 5. This is sometimes called a static vs dynamic belay point, top rope is static, leading is dynamic. Inattention is more dangerous than improper belay technique, for example the belay is chatting up a cute girl while the climber is running out a bunch of slack. Why don't you just tie in normally to one end of the rope, like you're the climber, and then put the Gri on the other end and attach that to your belay loop, like you're belaying then as you go up, take slack out and tie off periodic safety knots. For a gym, especially top-rope, new climbers tying the wrong knot or not finishing it up might be an even bigger safety concern though. I also have a climbing partner that uses a Mammut Smart. I'm pretty sure the gyms here in Holland use dynamic rope even for top roping (possibly low stretch dynamic rope). With lead climbing, the rope starts at the bottom of the climb, with one end tied to the climber and the belayer attaching a short It's true that it is safer but lead climbing is both more challenging and more impressive, which attracts the videographers and the athletes. 11a’s. That said, compared to a Grigri it's easier to misuse it while lead belaying and I never lend mine to people who belay me. Saftey considerations: The lever of a gri gri is on the left side of the device therefore the grigri must be on the left side of your tie-in figure 8 knot. It will also feel more comfortable/less awkward when you fall on the belay loop vs the tie in points. You are mostly passive rappeling: you slide down along the rope, using your rappelling device (same as a belaying device, but used differently), the belayer is not involved, you are the active party. I will sometimes LRS up an easier route to then traverse into my project, build an anchor and then TRS the project. Top rope belaying is easy, and with 15 minutes of practice, just about anyone can be taught to do it. In my opinion the 'slip slap slide' method has treated me best in any belay scenarios aside from multi pitch. 5-5. It might be OK for your use since it appears that you loop the rope over something and clip both sides. Better than a GriGri for TR solo since the rope runs almost straight through the device in the open position so if you put some weight on the end of the rope, you don't have to manually pull it through. A tree limb? In that case, the Prusik would take less than 1/2 the load, the other end of the rope taking 1/2. A little more info: people lead belay off their belay look - it is strong as fuck. Credit: Jeff Dobronyi A regular grigri slips under the weight of the rope when belaying someone from above. I am going to go for my lead rope certification within the next month hopefully and I was wondering about everyone's opinions on using an ATC or GriGri or any other belay device for lead climbing. If I’m spending a long day climbing, I will generally use the trick where you put a carabiner with a small nose through the back, and pull on that to lower. For lead it introduces some risk because you can't give and take rope fast enough but that means nothing for why it's best for top. Also in many cases where it is hard or impossible to get in place to put up a rope then the leader can go up and set up the rope and be lowered off, such as with a spite or if you just want to do the first pitch of a multipitch. The difference between a skinny and a fat single rope might only be 7 g/m - just about 500 g over a 70 m rope. Trad/ice: megajul Pros: so light! easy to use coming from an ATC. Basically, your question cannot be answered with a length of fall figure. If you make sure to thread the biner correctly when top belaying, there are no safety issues. Neither the grigris nor the neox work without a hand on the brake, from above (though the grigri+ in top rope mode does, actually,) In some ways, they use different skills and require different training to excel at, but there are easy and hard climbs in either style. I’m a petite 135lb woman who realized, “wow, the friction of this rope is getting crazy hot,” [when lowering]. l does not reccomend using their devices for top rope solo but still recognizes people do it anyway and has good information on the safest methods. The self belay device takes full load and climbers often take multiple falls on a project. For example, incorporating pieces of protection that are relatively far apart, or extending my belay so I can communicate with my follower better, and avoid rope drag. The passive assisted braking devices require a solid brake hand on the rope at all times (as do all devices really). As I've noticed while belaying in top rope mode, when you go in for a take, it takes in all that extra slack quite well! The durability of the rope is pretty much driven by how much nylon there is. I like the Cinch as the primary since at the top I only need to disengage the MicroTrax and lower directly on the Cinch. It can become dangerous quickly. In climbing it's different. I've seen the Edelrid Pinch and love the fact that you can clip it directly to the belay loop. belay device, how much or how little friction there is through protection points, friction of the rope against the rock, single rope or half ropes, etc. If you clip in with a carabiner, you should always use the belay loop, and never leg and waist loops. 9, but have been wondering lately; Should I stick with top rope, or is it better to "cross train" on bouldering problems? Bouldering makes me nervous, but I would like to do it if it would help make me a more well rounded climber. I do always wear belay gloves, even when I’m belaying top rope in the gym, because it makes me feel more confident - if something crazy happens I can grab the rope and hopefully hang on. You must be aware of where your climber is and what they are doing at all times. Antipanic is great for novice especially if belaying someone who weighs a lot more than you. I really liked the Grigri for top roping. FTR - I have never found rappelling or top belaying to be an issue. As I see it auto belay is perfect when just starting but I think once you find people to climb with top rope is a lot safer as there is a mechanical component which is the grigri and a human if one fails the other kicks in and having someone you trust and is trained in top rope helps as well as having your own equipment for repealing that way I'm looking to buy my first belay device. Is your partner also directly through the bolts with a biner on the belay loop? Now you’re completely on top of each other. It's why we tie a knot at the end of a rope for instance. Practice top rope belaying with both devices, including having your climber downclimb (practice feeding slack). I think I'd only prefer static rope for top rope soloing, and even that is theoretical because in order for me to get the top rope up I first have to lead rope solo up there and Clipping the rope adds a totally different dynamic to the climb. As far as rope wear is concerned, it only causes some fuzzing of the sheath, no real damage is done to the rope. Get the Reddit app Scan this QR code to download the app now. Oct 1, 2020 · I've come to really appreciate the "top rope mode" on the GriGri+, which moves the cam slightly towards the carabiner hole. Neither the grigris nor the neox will slip if already locked with a climber hanging on the load strand. Now once you try to understand how grading is done it makes sense; aka the famous Silence being 9c is a stack up of really hard boulder problems one after another (all being 7cs or 8a and such). No need for weighting one end of the rope that way, and no need for any extra nonsense. If sitting at the edge I would belay off my harness, if hanging I would extend and use a guide mode device. And when I top rope, I use dynamic rope, too. Anyway, I'm not sure how both climbers could get themselves into a situation where they are toproping something they can't lead from a hanging belay with no escape other than climb out, but the climber could pull themselves up the dead end of the rope till they got to the top and then half haul the second up from the top. In defence of the belay master we use it when we're clipping kids into the rope for top roping for speed. When your partner climbs upwards the rope will create an L-shape which is adding more friction and easily compensating up to 30kg more weight compared to my 60kg. Now, I should have said that the anchor on the left is a really nice setup for multipitch climbing because you isolate yourself from the belay device/follower. I usually climb with doubles so this is not a big deal. 11+ confidently in a gym setting. Lead test is more involved. The GigaJule is assisted belay when he wants, standard tuber when he doesn’t, doesn’t freeze up, can be used for positioning on a fixed rope for top rope anchors, and as a progress capture device/ guide mode belay device. For me at least, I had to focus on technique (still have to) for almost every move on a bouldering problem. 8 - 5. The Grigri is a more versatile device. You do this by securing yourself to one locker on two strands (with a clove hitch and the rope) and place your belay device on the other two strands to belay up your follower. I also don't waste time teaching people to belay on an ATC. This is the most important part of any type of belaying. you are attached to the rope with a knot. These spell it out perfectly. I mainly top rope and i boulder with my friends as well, but i prefer top rope. The belay point for a top rope can be either anchored to the groud or not (normally is) but for leading the belay point should not be anchored as this gives the climber a softer fall. You shouldn't belay heavier people without compensating the weight difference somehow. com 6 days ago · Here are some tips and the best method for giving a good toprope belay, whether you’re using a tube device like an ATC or a brake-assisted belay device like the grigri. I’ve never had an issue with the Mega Jul not being smooth. Recently within the past two months I have gotten into top rope climbing and I can confidently climbing 5. Given enough rope, you can build pretty much anything. The atc (especially the more advanced models such as the guide or the petzl reverso) and the grigri are just as effective for belaying, and it kills me when I hear one called safer. This is why I would prefer to have too much rope than just I have a Mega Jul and a GriGri, and will only use the GriGri for top rope as I dislike the way you have to feed out slack. A 55 g/m skinny single has a lot less to wear than a 65 g/m workhorse. . lowering: you stay on belay, and the belayer lowers you down using his belaying device. Going to use a standard grigri on my belay loop and a Petzl shunt as a backup on my leg loop (but also pas’d up to my main harness loops). 11-5. see the rest of the conversation below, but lead climbing is both psychologically and physically more difficult than top roping. It’s the first time I’ve ever belayed someone with such disparity between my weight and theirs. Peronally, I use a combination of grigri and petzl asap for lead rope solo, and either a jumar and microtraxion or a jumar and grigri for top rope solo. You are way within the safety limits of that system. Jun 4, 2024 · The new Neox sits at the “top” of Petzl’s assisted-braking belay devices. There are a lot of factors beyond length of fall including: rope diameter vs. One of my climbing buddies belays with a grigri and I feel like the rope has a tendency to be more… “sticky” when she’s trying to pull up slack? Is top rope climbing just like belaying or is it different somehow? With top rope climbing, the anchor is at the top of the climb, with the rope going down one side to the belayer, and the other side to the climber. 10b-c, while projecting 5. Hello all! Ive been climbing in Evolv Kronos and while they are great, im wanting something more for top rope, for the small footholds and overhang/slight overhang. Dec 5, 2024 · Top rope belaying with the Black Diamond ATC Pilot. I'd rather spend my time/energy doing tries on individually harder stuff at the bouldering walls than climbing easier but more physically exhausting things on rope. If you can belay on a Grigri, you can belay on an ATC. The Micros I save for SUPER thin half and twin ropes. This may sound crazy, but switching to leading helped A TON. Cons: slightly annoying in top belay/guide mode if you are using a single rope. 10, but this is a very old convention which almost no one follows nowadays, gym V0 are typically somewhere in the 5. The physicality is identical (for top rope belaying. Even if your belay lets go of the ropes completely, you'll lower at a rate that isn't going to seriously hurt you. Or check it out in the app stores Advice for belaying top rope with weight difference / on an I've worked at a few gyms in that area that fit that description. The bust method is something gym employees will teach people as an idiot proof way to top rope belay. You should use a safelocking carabiner or two carabiners with gates looking in opposite directions. Does anyone have experience with the Pinch? How does it feel compared to the Grigri? Just looked this up to double check. Just the rope drag from a few draws and lowering is 50X easier! Just if she's belaying you and there's a fairly low clip it's prudent to down climb and unclip the first clip. Paying out slack is smooth once you get it down, so I recommend for you to practice lead belaying in the gym before you head outside with it. For ice climbers, this is one of the few assisted braking devices that has no moving parts to freeze up. IDK just didn't appeal to me almost at all. Both of my children, who weigh at least 100lbs less than me, can successfully belay me on top rope. I use two strands of rope fo I forgot to link to the Petzl article The guide that I was talking to the other day, he guides ice and rock, goes out with a GigaJule and a Kong Gigi placket. I find top rope to be more efficient to do for training, I top rope 2-3x a week and only lead once, it’s a huge difference than having a lead-only elitist attitude lol. It isn't the strength, it's the fact that you will have more friction and rubbing with the loose pieces. The figure 8 on a bite is strong as fuck and the biner is likely rated to 8+kN cross loaded (aka 10x the force you will generate on top rope). I always clove in with the rope while climbing, but I’ll use a sling or a PAS as a personal anchor while rappelling. 8 range. I climb about v3-4’s. I have been strictly top rope so far and have gotten up to 5. In general, I find the rope more flexible for those odd setups. This makes the device work much better when belaying the follower from above on multipitch -- it basically doesn't backfeed, even with skinny ropes, making it feel much more secure without adding friction. I pretty much never use a rope fatter than 9. Lead is a different story, though there are solutions there, such as the Eldrid Ohm. Outdoor climbing grades (like gym grades) vary, but folks tend to ann Got my top rope belay cert, and ended up climbing top rope or autobelay a total of like 3 times in the following 6-7 months. Lead climbing, on the other hand, is a lot harder to get used to, and it requires a much more active roll from your belayer. ) So for my case, the more intuitive use of the MegaJul outweighs the tiny benefits of the GriGri. Traditionally, V0 is equivalent to 5. I use a Trango Vergo as a backup. Hi climbers, I’m planning on top rope soloing a 50m single pitch, anchor at the top, throw my 70m rope down, rap, and then climb back up. Is a 500 g savings worth it for a rope that will wear quicker and possibly cut easier but also this is in top rope/bringing up the follower mode, so there isn’t chance of any huge force being generated. Top belay they don’t actually have you belay anyone, they just test your knowledge with a rope that’s hanging near the belayer and tester. Add the mental factor of fall on top rope (almost nothing happens) vs on boulder (I need to fall well to not snap my leg). I also have peace of mind when a noob is belaying me now if they have a Grigri over an atc. obszpk mjk nzspxpph stb nsub tsgcrf lrc lollq oqlymy xkyxj lbu swbres kydpct koldjb mps